Side Project Podcast 2: Nutrition with Alexandra Dusenberry

Ruthie Miller (00:00.974)

OK, Alexandra, can you go into a little bit of detail about how our nutrition needs change as we hit that middle age stage? Is it all about metabolism, or are our organs just getting old and they can’t process like they used to? What’s the deal?

Alexandra Dusenberry (04:38.06)

There’s a whole lot going on, especially for women. We add a lot of those hormonal changes on top of everything and it can get very confusing to figure out what is right for us in terms of our diet. But I’d say one of the main things at sort of that midpoint of life where we really want to assess our diet, is we become more insulin resistant. And what that means is a lot of high carbohydrate foods are not going to align very well with our health and wellness goals.

It can, of course, lead to things like weight gain, but it can also lead to things like underlying inflammation and chronic fatigue and a lot of those energy slumps we experience during the day. And so as we become insulin resistant, we can’t process and handle those carbohydrates very effectively, it can really even affect things like our mood and amplify symptoms of perimenopause, which is certainly something we want to try to minimize. 

So one of the more important things to focus on with nutrition is balancing what comes on your plate, and being mindful about the carbohydrates – though I don’t think we need to villainize the carbohydrate sources. What is helpful to focus on and emphasize, and I think I find aligns really well for my clients, is what can we bring in and incorporate more of, as opposed to this sort of mindset around lack and restriction. 

And that comes down to our macronutrient of protein. We need to prioritize protein in our diet since it essentially acts as one extreme muscle supporter, but it’s like nature’s GLP-1. And we do have higher demands for protein as we age because it takes more effort between exercise and nutrition to actually lead to that muscle protein synthesis. So we’ve got to really lock in the protein.

Ruthie Miller (06:51.63)

I heard recently that we should be getting 80-100% of our body weight in grams of protein. So basically I need to be getting like 120, 130 grams of protein every day. That’s a lot of protein.

Julie Liegl (07:19.347)

And for somebody who doesn’t know what grams are and can’t really picture that, what does that mean? What’s an egg? Or what’s a quarter cup of almonds? Should I be eating nothing but protein? Because that’s what I’m scared you’re gonna tell me.

Alexandra Dusenberry (07:32.108)

It can feel a little overwhelming when you think about how our normal diet is versus what our protein should be amplified to. So it is exactly what you said, Ruthie. It’s that sort of 0.8-1 gram of protein per pound of body weight per day. And that looks, quite frankly, Julie, a little bit different protein to protein source, but just for some quick reference, an egg is going to be about six grams of protein.

Let’s say you have about four to five ounces of chicken breast, you’re looking at about 35 grams of protein there. Higher fat meat is gonna have a little bit less protein gram per gram, but something like salmon that’s got a lot of healthy fat in it – that same portion size will have a bit less protein since the salmon’s fat content is higher.

Ruthie Miller (08:46.737)

So you need like four chicken breasts a day to get up to 120 grams of protein. I mean, that’s a lot.

Julie Liegl (08:55.507)

And for vegetarians, that gets a little bit harder. I mean, beans and nuts, I assume is where you’re gonna go, but it does feel like adding a chicken breast to your lunch every day is easier than maybe figuring out ways to add the protein or vegetarian, or are there easier ways to do that?

Alexandra Dusenberry (09:14.986)

Depending on the protein sources you choose, there is some extra effort and intentionality about the types of protein you have. So kind of the big difference there is animal protein versus plant-based protein. All of your animal proteins are going to be complete protein sources, meaning they have all nine of the essential amino acids that we need to get through food that our body can’t synthesize on its own. And those amino acids are essentially just the protein building blocks. When you digest your chicken, fish, eggs, tofu, whatever it might be, you’re breaking them down into amino acids. And now that pool of amino acids is what’s essentially the protein source in circulation in the body, whether it’s used for muscle protein synthesis or tissue repair from injuries and wounds or making neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin, those amino acids are used for a lot of purposes in the body. 

Now, where it’s important to distinguish plant and animal based protein sources is what amino acids they either do or may not provide in ample amounts. So your fish, chicken, eggs, beef, dairy products, your animal proteins, they’ve got all nine amino acids. So things like beans, legumes, some nuts and seeds, certain grain products are lower in some of those essential amino acids. Now there are complete protein sources in the plant-based world. Tofu, tempeh, edamame, so your soy-based proteins, those are complete sources. Buckwheat, which is a grain, for example, that’s a complete source. You get a little bit more niche and you find things like spirulina and hemp seeds that are also complete protein sources in the plant-based world. 

But let’s say I’ve got someone who, you know, for the purposes of their health and what makes them feel the best, they’re on a plant-based diet, vegan or vegetarian, and they heavily rely on beans and legumes. There is a possibility if all they’re getting from their protein consumption or protein sources is just beans and legumes, that they might have a lack of certain amino acids coming in. So they’re getting protein in the diet, but they may not have that full spectrum of all of those amino acids. So with plant-based protein diets, you want to make sure you have a variety. Vary your protein sources. If someone can consume soy products, bring some of those in. If someone loves beans and legumes, which I think are fantastic, especially for the microbiome, we want to bring those beans and legumes in, but complement them with things like grains and nuts and seeds. You get a wider variety of amino acids. 

Julie Liegl (12:31.293)

How does protein powder fit into this? Cause I feel like I go to Costco now and there’s a whole protein powder aisle. Is that cheating? 

Alexandra Dusenberry (12:51.82)

I am a fan of a protein powder if it’s of high quality. I do think that’s one of those convenience foods that can help us reach our protein requirements and goal, especially if we don’t want to rely, like you said, just on a bunch of chicken breasts all day long. It can give us a little bit more versatility in our food choices or using protein powder to bump up the protein in something that might not naturally be there. 

Like for oatmeal, for example. There’s some beneficial fiber forms in it for things like cholesterol, but it’s a big carbohydrate spike if we have oatmeal by itself. You add the protein powder, it steadies out that slow release of the glucose that we absorb. So you can use protein powder supplementally in a lot of ways. 

Now, when we look at protein powder, just like with the other protein powder, the protein sources we just touched on, that variety is still important. If someone goes for something like whey based protein, which is typically derived from cow’s milk protein, or they use something like an egg white protein, or even something like a bone broth based protein. Those are complete protein sources. They’ve got the animal-based protein, all the amino acids are there. There are certain plant based proteins that will mix a few different types of protein like a pea protein or a brown rice protein, for example, and you get that full spectrum of amino acids. 

When I’m looking at a protein powder though, we definitely want to make sure it’s organic. The quality is really important there. If it’s animal-based, I don’t want the cows to be pumped up with a bunch of hormones and antibiotics. If it’s plant-based, I don’t want it sprayed down with a bunch of pesticides and insecticides. And then the sugar content for me is a really big one. I wouldn’t want to see artificial sweeteners or a large amount of actual added sugars coming in. I’d rather the individual have the control of how much sugar gets added via something like fruit in a smoothie, for example. 

Ruthie Miller (15:06.261)

Let’s carry that right into nutrition supplements. Now I’ve started taking a lot of supplements recently, Omega 3s and collagen and all these other things. But how do you know what supplements are right for you? Like, is it an individual thing, or are there supplements that you recommend kind of across the board?

Alexandra Dusenberry (15:25.932)

A little bit of both to be honest. I think that it’s not a one-size-fits-all approach. One of the big things I see quite often as a deficiency or a need for more support is magnesium. It’s estimated between 65-80% of the US adult population doesn’t get enough.

It’s also a mineral that we use for over 600 reactions in the body for metabolic function. So we use it amply and it gets depleted by stress. If we’ve got stress coming on at some point, which I assume most of us do, concocts a cucumber, but the magnesium, you run through it much more quickly to help process that and handle that cortisol production. 

It’s just one of those minerals that’s maybe a bit more challenging to get through food alone. So typically people bring it in as a supplement and they start to feel better, improved energy, better sleep, better stress response, improved metabolic function, improved glucose response. 

Beyond that, definitely think that testing is a helpful tool with blood work to see where we are for certain nutrient needs. Vitamin D is one of those really common deficiencies, especially for people who might not get a lot of sun exposure. But I wouldn’t necessarily recommend someone bring in a specific vitamin D supplement if we didn’t know that they’re already dealing with some type of insufficiency or deficiency. 

But then there’s the conversation around maybe what is someone’s particular health and wellness goal, short-term and long-term? We’re focusing on perhaps reducing chronic inflammation or supporting cognitive function. An omega-3 fatty acid supplement is a fantastic tool to use. But there’s the conversation around what someone may or may not be getting in their diet. Someone’s getting about 12 ounces of oily and fatty fish on the plate during their week. They might not need that extra omega-3. But if someone doesn’t eat fish, we definitely need to be bringing that into their routine. So there are some commonalities, and there’s also some catering to what somebody’s needs are, just to give you a bit of an umbrella explanation.

Ruthie Miller (18:09.683)

How do you feel about multivitamins? Should we all be taking a multivitamin to kind of build up some of those smaller vitamins and minerals that we might not be getting? 

Julie Liegl (18:26.105)

And how do we know which vitamins are good quality? Kind of similar to how you talked about the protein. How do I know which ones to buy?

Alexandra Dusenberry (18:34.016)

Good questions there. I do tend to recommend a multivitamin often enough. One of those reasons that I say I recommend it often is because I have the opportunity to see a lot of people’s blood work in lab testing where they might do vitamin and mineral status testing. If that’s the case and we’re really low in a lot of nutrients, then bringing a multivitamin in is fantastic. If there are certain medications that someone’s on like birth control or hormonal replacement therapy, they’re depleting a lot of their key nutrients that a multivitamin can help bring back up like magnesium, vitamin C, zinc, some of our B vitamins like folate and B12, B6. So if we bring that multivitamin in, again, it helps to minimize potential deficiencies. And I think if someone just in general wanted to bring in a multivitamin to cover their bases from what they’re not getting through the diet, that’s fine, but the quality is important. 

There are a couple of things that I immediately look at on a nutritional supplement for a multivitamin. One of them is the form of a couple of the B vitamins. This can be a really helpful indication to determine if your supplement you’re looking at is good quality or not. So there are low quality B vitamins that are not well absorbed by many people based on their genetics. And there are certain forms of some B vitamins that are well absorbed that are oftentimes a little bit more expensive to use, which is why companies don’t always utilize them. A quick check here is to check what form your B12 and your folate are in that multivitamin formula. If you see methylated forms of those B vitamins, that’s a good thing. And so when you look at the nutrition label, you’ll see, let’s say we’re looking at B12, you’ll see something called methylcobalamin. Cobalamin is the scientific name for the vitamin B12. You see methylcobalamin, that’s a readily available form for the body to utilize quite effectively. Now, if I see something called cyanocobalamin, this is actually vitamin B12 that is connected to a cyanide molecule, and that’s not something we want to be taking every day. 

Ruthie Miller (20:41.255)

Yes, good. Avoid the cyanide.

Julie Liegl (20:42.963)

So we have one takeaway when you’re thinking about vitamin B absorption: Meth = good, cyanide = bad.

Alexandra Dusenberry (20:51.732)

Yeah, exactly. I’m going to remember that one. It’s – getting a little Breaking Bad in here, but it’s one of those situations where, the cyanocobalamin, you start looking for it, you’ll see it pop up in a lot of these very, I’d say, commonplace, maybe energy promoting vitamins and supplements. 

Think of certain, let’s say, enhanced waters that are flavored that you find at the grocery store and they have B12 for energy. So most of the time it’s gonna be that really low quality cyanocobalamin. So people unknowingly get a lot of it in different areas. Then they’ve got their multivitamin that they got at the drug store that they thought was a good option, but it might still be quite low quality. They’re getting more cyanocobalamin there. And it’s just a form of the B12 vitamin that a lot of people do not have the genetic ability to actually break down and absorb and metabolize. 

The other methylated form that you want to look for is the folate B vitamin. So methylfolate, you’ll sometimes see it listed as MTHF or methyl trifolate. There’s some different terms that you can find on the nutrition supplements, but those methylated B vitamins right out of the gate can be a very good indication you’ve got a good quality multivitamin. 

And this is where someone needs to know what else they’re taking. Because let’s say you’re taking a vitamin D supplement for your deficiency and it’s already at a high percentage, but you don’t realize that your multivitamin also has extra vitamin D in it. We might be doing some things that are redundant or a bit excessive and unnecessary. So really using your multivitamin as the foundation and knowing what is in there so you’re not doubling up is really important too.

Ruthie Miller (22:47.607)

I’ve always been told, and maybe this is an old wives tale, that if you get extra vitamins, they just come out when you pee. Is that accurate? 

Alexandra Dusenberry (22:55.532)

A lot of them do. Your water soluble vitamins, you don’t really store them quite well. And that’s a lot of our B vitamins, vitamin C for example. However, your fat soluble vitamins like vitamin D, A, E and K, they get stored in the body. So we can actually build up a reservoir of those nutrients. So vitamin D, A, E and K, if we’re getting them from too many different supplements all at one time, can build up a bit.

Now, vitamin D specifically is very challenging and we don’t really see it in the data that people run into toxicity levels, but there are concerns around excess vitamin A, excess vitamin E, for example. So you want to make sure that you’re not storing too much of those. 

Julie Liegl (23:41.171)

Can we talk about another vitamin C, which is caffeine? You mentioned it. I am 49, I’m perimenopausal and I drink a cup of coffee every day. Am I going to die? And added onto that, since Ruthie always talks about her newfound matcha thing, what is the deal with matcha with regard to nutrition?

Alexandra Dusenberry (23:59.169)

Yes, so caffeine is not a bad thing. We can absolutely still have it in our routine and diet. Again, there may be some individual discrepancies there. If someone’s cortisol hormones are through the roof, I’m gonna say we might need to watch caffeine intake. But the general recommendation for most of us to just get that sort of moderate safe level of caffeine intake per day, really don’t wanna go upwards of 300 to 400 milligrams. Cup of coffee is about 100 to 120 milligrams. So let’s say four cups of coffee is gonna be someone’s recommended dosage to stay under.

Julie Liegl (24:34.931)

So I can have three to four cups of coffee? That’s amazing. I’m underperforming.

Alexandra Dusenberry (24:41.619)

That said, the quality is so important. And in fact, it’s interesting, coffee is the number one consumed antioxidant that we get in the United States diet, which might show you how poor quality our diet is. And we do see that people who do drink moderate amounts of coffee, typically have improved longevity markers, whether it’s brain function or lower risk of certain disease states. So we know that there’s some benefits to the coffee, but the quality is very important. And the pitfalls I see happening most often are two things. One, the quality of the coffee itself. It should be organic, and it should be mold and microtoxin free. So the quality of the coffee we’re making at home is important. 

Now out in the world, you don’t always have quality control to make sure your coffee at all the big box chains and mom-and-pop coffee shops is organic and mold and microtoxin free. When we’re out at those coffee shops, the microplastics in the to-go coffee cups – this is a really big exposure point of endocrine disruption and underlying inflammation.

So someone’s getting their cup of coffee – they get their little pick-me-up and some good antioxidants, but at what cost? How often are those microplastics coming into the cup? So maybe bring your reusable cup or have one of their ceramic mugs and actually sit in the coffee shop and drink it while you’re there, rather than get the hot coffee that has been sitting in that cup that’s internally lined with plastic lining where those micro plastic particles get infused into the drink. If we’re having that coffee every day, weeks to months to years on end, that’s a really large underlying potential toxin exposure point. I’m big on trying to get people to lower their plastic exposure through those food consumption points. And coffee tends to be a big one where people hit it too much.

Ruthie Miller (27:14.381)

I’m glad you brought up the microplastics because that’s something I think we’ve all been hearing a ton about lately. Are there specific tests you can do to see if you are affected by that or, you know, kind of what level of microplastics you have in there, you know, on a scale of one to 100, where are you?

Alexandra Dusenberry (27:34.366)

Yeah, so there is some testing you can do and it doesn’t necessarily look at the microplastic particles in circulation, but it will look at toxic chemicals that are typically related to plastic exposure, like those BPA and its sister chemicals like BPS, BPF, for example, those types of things that tend to cause endocrine disruption, hormonal imbalance, underlying inflammation, glucose disruption, for example.

So one of the things that’s helpful for people to be mindful of with the plastic exposure is, if you have the option to get a cold beverage, that’s gonna be preferred over a hot beverage because those microplastics tend to leach out much more amply under that heat exposure. So hot beverages, hot foods, reheating things in the microwave can tend to be problematic. So if we’re able to really limit that and reduce that exposure, it’s a big improvement for our toxin burden in the liver specifically. But the urine testing is really one of the main ways we can actually look at those chemicals through screening the toxin clearance. Or if someone’s got really high levels of BPA, that’s a big concern. 

Ruthie Miller (29:06.157)

Well, let’s go back to matcha. Is that something we all need to be drinking now. Or was it something that was just created so everybody can show it off on social media?

Julie Liegl (29:10.477)

Macha, yes! But not in a plastic cup. I think that’s gonna be the answer.

Alexandra Dusenberry (29:14.988)

Yes, matcha! If you’re not familiar with it or you haven’t tried it before, matcha is a type of green tea where the leaf is ground into a very fine powder. You’re consuming the entire tea leaf when you drink matcha. So compared to your traditional cup of green tea, you’re getting about 30 times more antioxidant density. So it’s a really amplified nutritional beverage to consume.

The caffeine’s about half as much as a cup of coffee, so it does still contain some caffeine, but I like it because it’s a slow release and a natural source of an amino acid called L-theanine. Now, the reason L-theanine is found in matcha, just from an agricultural perspective, this will kind of make sense here, but matcha tea leaves, the last two to four weeks before they’re harvested, they’re grown in the shade.

So you actually don’t have those matcha tea leaves getting their main fuel source: sunlight. They can’t photosynthesize. The plant happens to do this really interesting process of making its own natural fuel source, which is the L-theanine. So when it gets harvested, that L-theanine is locked into the plant. We get to consume it. Now, why is L-theanine so effective and so interesting in the matcha? Well, it helps to actually provide a little bit of this sense of calm and focus. So instead of noticing things like the jitters, the anxiety, the caffeine crashes, when the L-theanine is locked in with that caffeine, you find that it enhances your focus. 

So if people are looking to kind of maybe reduce their coffee intake and still get some caffeine with some added benefits, I find that pairing matcha and coffee together is a really good structure to utilize. Maybe someone has their cup of coffee in the morning, because I find that that ritual is often what people love to hold on to, because it’s non-negotiable to get the coffee in the morning. And then mid-morning or early afternoon when you need that pick-me-up, that’s where a matcha can be a really effective thing to bring in because you get a little bit of that caffeine, you get the focus enhancement, and it’s a much more slow release caffeine steady state that kind of keeps you alert but not overstimulated.

Julie Liegl (31:50.643)

So that sounds kind of like a magical food we should consider adding. Are there other magical foods we should be adding? I love what you said at the beginning about adding to our diets, rather than subtracting. And I’ve already got protein, but are there other functional foods every woman should be eating, if you just had some quick tips to give?

Alexandra Dusenberry (32:37.32)

Yes, one of the ones that’s jumping out to me right now is in particular lion’s mane mushroom. So this is one of those functional mushrooms. There’s a lot of them you can find supplementally, but what I think is really helpful about lion’s mane mushroom as this sort of nutritionally beneficial fungi is you can get it in culinary form and cook with it too. Now lion’s mane for me, I see it as a brain power food.

Julie Liegl (32:47.484)

Really?

Alexandra Dusenberry (33:07.028)

It actually is able to help increase our production of neurons in the brain. So it can help to enhance memory, focus and concentration when we consume this particular mushroom variety. Bringing it back to, let’s say, know, women in our fifties who there’s hormonal changes going on. And one of those big hormonal changes is, you know, estrogen and progesterone drop, but they’re very important for our brain protection.

And it’s no secret that as estrogen and progesterone drop in perimenopause, we notice the brain fog, the memory changes, sort of that fuzziness that comes in. Or I walked into the room and I don’t remember what I came in here for. All of those types of things that show us we need some memory support. We’re losing those brain protective hormones. What can we bring in to enhance brain function? Lion’s mane mushroom is definitely a big one of those that will help from the cognitive standpoint. Even if people are able to consume it once or twice a week, I think that’s fantastic to bring in. And you can utilize it in any other culinary application. You use your other favorite forms of mushrooms, whether it’s in a stir fry or adding them to a soup. 

I would also say sprouts and microgreens. I don’t think they get enough marketing and PR, but they are a nutritional powerhouse. The smaller version of your dark leafy greens is typically much more nutritionally dense than the larger greens. As they grow, they don’t have as much potency in such a small concentrated amount.

Julie Liegl (34:50.183)

Wait, does that mean kale is not a superfood? Because kale is giant. And all I’ve been hearing about is kale.

Alexandra Dusenberry (34:54.284)

Can we find micro kale? That’d be even better. Baby kale? I mean, kale does have nutrients. But your micro greens, like the micro cilantro or micro arugula you find at the farmers market or in the grocery store salad green section, they’re a nutritional powerhouse. In particular, I love to recommend broccoli sprouts because they have a natural compound called sulforaphane. And you get a lot more sulforaphane in your broccoli sprouts than you do in your actual broccoli. But sulforaphane is a fantastic liver supporting nutrient that helps us with all of our detoxification properties. And again, that’s a really important component of health for us to focus on as we age, as we deal with hormonal changes, as we’re looking to feel our best, giving the liver some love and helping out all the things that we constantly have to detoxify is really important. 

And then turmeric: I can’t say enough good things about turmeric. I know we talk about it a lot for the inflammation benefits, but I always come back to the brain. I think cognitive function is one of the most important faculties that we can protect and preserve as we age. We see those rates of Alzheimer’s and other forms of dementia consistently amplifying year after year. And turmeric has been shown to actually help reduce the buildup of what’s called beta amyloid plaque in the brain. And that is one of those suspected drivers of some of this Alzheimer’s development. Turmeric helps to bring down that plaque buildup in the brain. As long as we’re getting around, you know, 500 milligrams a day, which is about a teaspoon of turmeric per day. And that comes back to consistency in the diet. If someone’s going to use these super foods, you want to have them frequently enough. Maybe if someone’s utilizing turmeric, we have it in a golden milk latte with your milk of choice, some cinnamon, some ginger, some local honey, mix that together and drink it. Put it in a salad dressing. Soups, stews, and curries are a great place to add turmeric. At Cal a Vie, we sprinkle it over popcorn. 

Ruthie Miller (38:17.613)

That is amazing. I could listen to Alexandra talk all day long, but that’s about all the time we have for today. If you want to learn more from Alexandra, you can 1) visit her at Cal a Vie, or 2) you can check out her website and her private nutrition consultation practice, Have You Loved You Today? 

Alexandra, thank you so much for joining us. We’ve had a great time and now we’re all going to run out and buy lion’s mane mushrooms, micro greens, and turmeric.

Julie Liegl (39:00.431)

and methyl, methyl B vitamins, not cyan. I have a feeling Alexandra is also going to make me throw out all of my gummy vitamins because I prefer candy to anything. So that’s how I trick myself. I’m guessing you’re gonna say not the best form for vitamins.

Alexandra Dusenberry (39:19.286)

Eh, it depends on what the gummy is made out of. I’ve seen some good gummies, but a lot of them, I’d say they’re not much better than a Peach Ring or a Red Vine.

Julie Liegl (39:27.717)

I love Peach Rings and Red Vines! You’re speaking my language. OK, as always, you can find a recap of everything we talked about on our website at sideprojecthq.com.